ASK MAULANA

Your Questions, Answered

On Madrasa Education and the Ulema

How do you look at the madrasa system? There is much talk about the need for reforms in the system?

Unlike some others, I am not critical of or opposed to the madrasas' as such. Muslims need both types of education — religious as well as secular. Muslim children should have knowledge of both their religion as well as secular subjects. There is, of course, no need for all Muslim children to go to full-time madrasas' to train to become ulema. However, some children must do so in order that the tradition of religious learning can be carried on. We need madrasa-trained ulema who have knowledge of the Quran, Hadith, Islamic jurisprudence and Arabic.

As far as the question of madrasa ‘reforms’ is concerned, I really don’t believe in this talk of ‘modernisation’. You certainly cannot ‘modernise’ the Quran and the Hadith. So, I think the word ‘modernisation’ in this context is uncalled for.

While on this subject of ‘reforms’, I must say that the ‘modern’ schools and universities are also in urgent need of reform, a point often neglected by vociferous advocates of madrasa ‘reform’. Some people argue that madrasas' teach some outdated centuriesold texts on Greek philosophy and logic and hold that against them. But we must also note that departments of English in universities also teach English classics, written centuries ago, which have no value in the outside world. For me, these texts are a minor issue. The basic issue is the need for good, committed teachers.

So, are you arguing that madrasa students must not be made familiar with basic ‘modern’ subjects?

No, I am not saying this at all. What I am suggesting is that separate institutions can be established where some madrasa graduates can later enrol to learn ‘modern’ subjects, particularly different languages such as English. I myself received a traditional madrasa education and learnt English and ‘modern’ subjects on my own, after I graduated. I feel that if madrasa students are forced to study ‘modern’ subjects in addition to the subjects in the existing madrasa curriculum, it would be too much of a load for them to bear. It might destroy the very fabric of the madrasas'.

In recent years, a small number of these specialized institutions for madrasa graduates that you refer to have been established in India. How do you look at this phenomenon?

I think this is a very welcome development. However, it needs to be done in a more organized way. What many of these institutions lack are good teachers motivated by a missionary zeal. It won’t do to have just professional tutors. I strongly feel that more important than the curriculum are the teachers. In my days in the Madrasa tul-Islah in Azamgarh, we had teachers who worked with missionary passion.

They instilled in us the spirit of enquiry, which is the mother of all knowledge and without which you cannot progress. This tradition must be revived. Presently, we have no institutes for training madrasa teachers. They need to be trained in pedagogical techniques, child development and so on. I think this is one issue that Muslim organizations must focus on.

How do you think the rigid dualism between the madrasa trained ulema and the ‘secular’ university-trained Muslim intelligentsia can be bridged?

In my childhood, this dualism was not so apparent. At that time, the secular educational system did not lack ethical or moral values, but today the situation is very different. I suppose this is a result of wider social changes. You cannot create an institution like an island. Neither madrasas' nor secular schools are islands, cut off from the outside world. They are both influenced by the wider society.

A feasible way to overcome this educational dualism is by promoting greater interaction between students and teachers of madrasas' and those of schools and colleges, including both Muslims and others. In the past, there was this sort of interaction. Many Hindus used to study in madrasas', but not so now.  Presently, there is very little such interaction between the ulema and products of secular educational institutions, and that is one reason why there is such a glaring lack of understanding between them.

Some ulema might argue that the sort of interaction that you advocate may have a negative impact on the faith of madrasa students. What would you say?

I don’t agree. Interaction, based on a spirit of scientific enquiry and learning, is a major source of change and progress. Through interaction with others, based on the quest for knowledge, you can refine your morals and learn to recognize and respect others as fellow human beings. This is precisely what Islam teaches us.

To enable madrasas' and their students to interact with others and for them to come out of the four walls of their seminaries the best way is to inculcate in them the dawah spirit. For this, madrasas' can arrange seminars and conferences, to which they can invite people of other faiths as well as Muslims and others from colleges and universities. This sort of interaction will be a great means of promoting knowledge on both sides and will go a long way in dispelling mutual misunderstandings.

Take my own example. Every day, I interact with people, of various social and religious backgrounds. I consider this a blessing. It provides me knowledge, sensitivity to the humanity of others, rich experiences and moral values.

Would you recommend that madrasas' also teach their students about other faiths?

Yes, madrasas' could also consider teaching their students the basics of other religions. This will enable them, as would-be ulema, to relate more comfortably with people of other faiths. It will also assist them in their dawah work.

The teaching of other religions should aim at providing students an objective understanding of these faiths. The earlier approach, of denouncing other religions, must be given up. You must learn to objectively and truly understand your neighbour, even if you do not agree with him. I think bitter polemics are against the ethos of Islam. So, for instance, in my case, when I visit Hindu, Sikh, Christian shrines and other places of worship, I try to empty my mind of prejudices. I have learnt a lot from this. My intention in visiting such places and meeting people there is to learn, not to debate or to denounce others as inferior.

As I see it, dawah is an expression of empathy for others, not hostility.

It has nothing to do with pride based on a misplaced sense of superiority. The Quran asks us to be sympathetic well-wishers of others.

Why is it that most madrasa students tend to come from poorer families? This was not the case in the pre-colonial period.

One reason is that middle class parents would prefer to send their children to ‘modern’ schools because the jobs that madrasa graduates get are not well-paid. The salaries of madrasa teachers must be increased. In that way, one may hope that more bright children might prefer to enrol in madrasas' and become ulema. In the past, madrasas' produced brilliant scholars and leaders, but this is not the case today.

How do you look at the sensationalist and distorted reporting about madrasas' in large sections of the mass media?

The media is impelled by profit-making motives and thrives on ‘hot’ news in order to feed the market that it caters to. It is not interested in ‘soft’ news, because it is not profitable. So, it thrives on sensational news and selective reportage.

One day, I was listening to the Hindi service of a radio station, and a listener called up from Mauritius and asked why the radio station did not give much coverage to Mauritius, which also has a large Hindispeaking population. The programme presenter replied, half-jokingly, that the media is based on ‘hot’ news, and that no such ‘hot’ news ever seems to emanate from Mauritius! ‘Create some hot news there’, he told the caller, ‘and we’ll report about your country!’

So, the point is that if you want to change the way the media reports about something, you have to work at changing people’s mindsets.